A sustainist may not look very different from people who've been campaigning for lower carbon footprints and things that help with the climate change. That's certainly the case. But whereas certainly historically in this sort of sloganeer way like ecology and technology were opposites. And you were either, you know, if you go for technology you were sort of damaging the environment, and if you were an ecologist, you were very wary about what technology you use and technology itself was a sort of sometimes a demon. From a sustainist point of view, with this accepting the complex world, accepting that we're on this juncture where connectivity and localism and sustainability are all part of our new culture, that these are no longer opposites. You can be, you know, you have a cause already, whole decades of history of like green tech or eco-tech or whatever, in the technical fields we know that. But if you look at it culturally, it's quite a shift to not position technology with ecology. So the sustainist view is also sometimes we have to refrain from certain behaviours or buying certain things if we want our carbon footprints down. Sometimes we can have better technologies and have a lower carbon footprint, so then technology becomes not the problem but it becomes the answer. I'm not arguing that there's always a technical fix, but that automatism, that no, you can't use technology to get your carbon footprint down, you have to change your lifestyle, that is like, that's the old way, and sustainist is the new way where you look very critically of course on which technology you use, not just whether they are environmentally sound, but also whether the technology increases or decreases connection, for example, with your locality or with your friends or with things that you find important on the other side of the world. So it changes the question and the phase we're in now, the moment that's emerging is what are then those new criteria for sustainist development and sustainist design and sustainist solutions, given that climate change is not going away. It's going to get worse, unless we change. I mean, we caused it, so we also better think about how to make the change to turn the corner.